Skip to main content
Log in

Do(es the Influence of) Empty Waves Survive in Configuration Space?

  • Published:
Foundations of Physics Aims and scope Submit manuscript

Abstract

The de Broglie–Bohm interpretation is a no-collapse interpretation, which implies that we are in principle surrounded by empty waves generated by all particles of the universe, empty waves that will never collapse. It is common to establish an analogy between these pilot-waves and 3D radio-waves, which are nearly devoided of energy but carry nevertheless information to which we may have access after an amplification process. Here we show that this analogy is limited: if we consider empty waves in configuration space, an effective collapse occurs when a detector clicks and the 3ND empty wave associated to a particle may not influence another particle (even if these two particles are identical, e.g. bosons as in the example considered here).

This is a preview of subscription content, log in via an institution to check access.

Access this article

Price excludes VAT (USA)
Tax calculation will be finalised during checkout.

Instant access to the full article PDF.

Fig. 1
Fig. 2
Fig. 3
Fig. 4

Similar content being viewed by others

Notes

  1. We use here the word “xor” instead of “or” to emphasize the fact that the situation where both detectors 1 and 2 of Fig. 2 would click is uninteresting because empty waves are produced when either detector 3 or detector 4 clicks. For the same reason, if both detectors 3 and 4 click, two empty waves are produced but there is no photon anymore to be influenced by these empty waves, which is also an uninteresting situation in the present context.

  2. In Appendix 1 we discuss the possibility to investigate experimentally whether phase coherence is present. Note that the experimental test proposed in Appendix 1 does not make it possible to discriminate between a situation where empty waves exist and are incoherent in phase and standard predictions obtained by assuming that no empty wave is present.

  3. Contrary to the set up used by Mandel et al. in Ref. [21] in order to reveal the existence of empty waves.

  4. As was noted in reference [25], ...In the quantum optics literature... one often finds the claim that the electromagnetic Maxwell field is the photon wave function, and Maxwell’s field equations are the photon wave equation - in disguise!...

  5. A wave function approach to describe photons is not common. In the majority of standard text-books the HOM experiment is formulated in terms of creation-destruction operators associated to plane wave modes. Such an approach emphasizes the corpuscular nature of light. We consider however that a wave function approach is more precise because plane waves do not exist in nature. It also emphasizes the fact that we are dealing with processes occuring in space-time or configuration space-time, which is generally lacking in approaches based on Fock states [27].

  6. Some extra-entanglement is also de facto present, resulting from correlations in the energies of the signal and idler pulses. This extra-entanglement is taken into account in modern formulations of HOM coalescence [28, 29]. Here we adopted a simplified expression for the two-photon wave function which however preserves the essential features of the “real” expression.

  7. Actually when \(\Delta \phi \) varies from 0 to \(\pi \) an interference pattern of visibility 100 percent is predicted to occur, \(\Delta \phi =\pi \) corresponding to bunching as in the HOM experiment. This corroborates the observations reported in Ref. [31] where, due to some experimental unperfections such as misalignments, desynchronisations and so on a visibility of 72 percent has been achieved for a similar set up. In this case, remarkably, the equivalent photons were obtained from two different sources, in a regime of pulsed excitation. Similar interferences have been reported in Ref. [28] in a situation where so-called “Franson” interferences are observed after injecting a pair of identical photons in the same input port of a MZ device.

  8. We expect this result to hold in all possible experimental configurations: NCI à la Bohm will always lead to the same predictions as standard CI. From this point of view, they are ad hoc, a well-known feature of de Broglie–Bohm interpretation.

  9. This distinction was explicitly recognized by F.Selleri who wrote, about de Broglie’s picture, more than 30 years ago [6], the following: ...According to this picture a quantum object is composed of a small particle which is constantly localized in space, and of an objective real wave \(\phi (x,y,z,t)\) which is a physical process propagating in space and time...In the same paper, F.Selleri wrote, about Einstein’s photon that ...A problem immediately coming to mind with Einstein’s philosophy is the following: If the localized particle carries all the energy and momentum, in which sense can the wave be considered real? This problem was felt so acutely by Einstein that he referred to these waves a Gespenterfelder (ghost fields): An object without energy and momentum is in fact unable to exert a pressure when impinging on a material surface, which means that it does not have that quality that makes us call something real. Still, the equations of the quantum theory describe this wave as propagating in space and time. The difficulties associated with the concept of an empty wave(...) have led many people to discard the idea as a scientific impossibility(...). It will be shown in the present chapter that the previous objection can be overcome because not only changes in energy and momentum can be observed, but modifications of probabilities as well. The last sentence also applies to the present paper.

  10. Here the context is different, and the guidance equation is deduced from the 2 photons version of the conservation equation (17) rather than from the conservation equation associated to the non-relativistic Schrödinger equation that de Broglie considered in 1926, but de Broglie’s guidance formula \(\textbf{p}=\hbar \mathbf{\nabla } {\phi} \) with \({\varvec{\phi}} \) the phase of the Schrödinger pilot wave directly generalizes to the present case as discussed in Sect. 2.5

  11. One can read for instance in the standard text-book of Sakurai [38] ...The classical limit of the quantum theory of radiation is achieved when the number of photons becomes so large that the occupation number may as well be regarded as a continuous variable. The space-time development of the classical electromagnetic wave approximates the dynamical behavior of trillions of photons....

  12. Note that, following F.Selleri [6], we could as well have baptised these waves Einstein-de Broglie waves in order to reinforce the connection with some ideas of the young Einstein about the photon. Einstein-de Broglie waves “live” in 3 +1 dimensions, while de Broglie–Bohm waves “live” in 3N+1 dimensions

  13. It is worth noting that the 3D NCI à la de Broglie outlined in Sect. 1 is operational only when a single photon is present. This can happen either when a single photon is produced [39,40,41] or when a pair is produced but a single photon is detected so that only one photon survives [1, 3, 4]. To the knowledge of the author, no generalisation of the 3D NCI is known when two photons are present, like for instance in the HOM experiment. A hybrid 3D theory remains to be written in this case.

  14. One should be cautious in experiments aimed at measuring this global phase however, in taking account of the coexistence of two typical times in experiments of the type of those realized by Mandel et al. [18, 21]. The detectors acquisition time is of the order of the picosecond or more while the time variation of the phase \(\Delta \theta \) is of the order of the femtosecond.

References

  1. Croca, J.R., Castro, P., Gatta, M., Moreira, R.N.: Louis de Broglie Realistic Research Program and the experimental detection of quantum waves. Annales de la Fondation de Broglie (special issue: theory of the double solution and quantum trajectories, Journées Louis de Broglie 2019, Institut Henri Poincaré, Paris) 46(1) (2021).

  2. de Broglie, L., Andrade e Silva, J.: Interpretation of a recent experiment on interference of photon beams. Phys. Rev. 172, 1284 (1968)

    Article  ADS  Google Scholar 

  3. Croca, J.R., Garuccio, A., Lepore, V.L., Moreira, R.N.: Quantum-Optical predictions for an experiment on the de Broglie waves detection. Found. Phys. Lett. 3, 6, 557 (1990)

    Article  Google Scholar 

  4. Croca, J.R., Garuccio, A., Selleri, F.: On a possible way to detect de Broglie’s waves. Found. Phys. Lett. 1, 2, 101 (1988)

    Article  Google Scholar 

  5. Croca, J.R.: Towards a Nonlinear Quantum Physics. World Scientific, London (2003)

    MATH  Google Scholar 

  6. Selleri, F.: Wave-particle duality: recent proposals for the detection of empty waves. In: Schommers, W. (ed.) Quantum Theory and Pictures of Reality. Springer, Berlin (1989)

    Google Scholar 

  7. Garuccio, A., Popper, K.A., Vigier, J.-P.: Possible direct physical detection of de Broglie waves. Phys. Lett. A 86(A), 397–400 (1981)

    Article  ADS  Google Scholar 

  8. Wheeler, J.A., Zurek, W.H.: Quantum Theory and Measurement, Section I.2. Princeton University Press, Princeton (1983)

  9. Ghirardi, G.C., Rimini, A., Weber, T.: Unified dynamics for microscopic and macroscopic systems. Phys. Rev. D 34, 470–491 (1986)

    Article  ADS  MathSciNet  MATH  Google Scholar 

  10. Colin, S., Durt, T., Willox, R.: L. de Broglie’s double solution program: 90 years later. Annales de la Fondation de Broglie 42(19) (2017)

  11. Colin, S., Durt, T., Willox, R.: Crucial tests of macrorealist and semi-classical gravity models with freely falling mesoscopic nanospheres. Phys. Rev. A 93, 0612 (2016)

    Article  Google Scholar 

  12. Durt, T., Fargue, D., Matzkin, A., Robert, J.: Introduction: theory of the double solution and quantum trajectories, Journées L. de Broglie 2019. Annales de la Fondation de Broglie 46(1), 1–17 (2021)

    Google Scholar 

  13. de Broglie, L.: La mécanique ondulatoire et la structure atomique de la matière et du rayonnement. J. Phys. Radium 8(5), 225–241 (1927)

    Article  MATH  Google Scholar 

  14. Bohm, D.: A suggested interpretation of the quantum theory in terms of “hidden’’ variables. II. Phys. Rev. 85(2), 180–193 (1952)

    Article  ADS  MathSciNet  MATH  Google Scholar 

  15. de Broglie, L.: La mécanique ondulatoire et la structure atomique de la matière et du rayonnement. Comptes rendus de l’ académie des Sci. 183(447) (1926)

  16. Bohm, D., Hiley, B.-J.: The Undivided Universe. Routledge, Boca Raton (1993)

    MATH  Google Scholar 

  17. Smith, B.J., Raymer, M.G.: Photon wave functions, wave-packet quantization of light, and coherence theory. New J. Phys. 9, 414 (2007)

    Article  ADS  MathSciNet  Google Scholar 

  18. Hong, C.K., Ou, Z.Y., Mandel, L.: Measurements of subpicosecond time intervals between two photons by interference. Phys. Rev. Lett. 59, 2044 (1987)

    Article  ADS  Google Scholar 

  19. de Broglie, L.: Réfutation du théorème de Bell. In: Gauthier-Villars (ed.) Jalons pour une nouvelle microphysique: exposé d’ensemble sur l’interprétation de la mécanique ondulatoire (Paris) (1978)

  20. Bell, J.S.: On the EPR paradox. Physics 1, 165 (1964)

    Google Scholar 

  21. Wang, L.J., Zou, X.Y., Mandel, L.: Experimental test of the de Broglie Guided-Wave theory for photons. Phys. Rev. Lett. 66, 1111–1114 (1991)

    Article  ADS  Google Scholar 

  22. Glauber, R.: Coherent and incoherent states of the radiation field. Phys. Rev. 131, 2766 (1963)

    Article  ADS  MathSciNet  MATH  Google Scholar 

  23. Scully, M.O., Zubairy, M.S.: Quantum Optics. Cambridge University Press, Cambridge (1997)

    Book  Google Scholar 

  24. Goessens, I.: Decoherence and the quantum to classical transition: do we need quantum jumps? Master thesis V.U.B.-Institut Fresnel (2013)

  25. Kiessling, M.-K.-H., Tahvildar-Zadeh, A.-S.: On the quantum-mechanics of a single photon. J. Math. Phys. 59 (2018)

  26. Taylor, G.I.: Interference fringes with feeble light. Proc. Camb. Phil. Soc. Math. Phys. Sci. 15, 114–115 (1909)

    Google Scholar 

  27. Gordon, P.E.: Can empty waves be detected? Phys. Lett. A 138(8), 359 (1989)

    Article  ADS  Google Scholar 

  28. Reisner, M., Mazeas, F., Dauliat, R., et al.: Quantum-limited determination of refractive index difference by means of entanglement. NPJ Quantum Inf. 8, 58 (2022)

    Article  ADS  Google Scholar 

  29. Jordan, K.M., Abrahao, R.A., Lundeen, J.S.: Quantum metrology timing limits of the Hong-Ou-Mandel interferometer and of general two-photon measurements. arXiv:2206.11387v1

  30. Shih, Y.: An Introduction to Quantum Optics, Photon and Biphoton Physics. CRC Press, Taylor and Francis Group, Boca Raton (2011)

  31. Faruque, I., Sinclair, G., Bonneau, D., Rarity, J., Thompson, M.: On-chip quantum interference with heralded photons from two independent micro-ring resonator sources in silicon photonics. Opt. Express 26, 16, 20379 (2018)

    Article  Google Scholar 

  32. Norsen, T.: Bohmian conditional wave functions (and the status of the quantum state). J. Phys. 701, 012003 (2016)

    Google Scholar 

  33. Bacciagaluppi, G., Valentini, A.: Quantum Theory at the Crossroads: Reconsidering the 1927 Solvay Conference. Cambridge University Press, Cambridge (2010) [quant-ph/0609184]

  34. Holland, P.R.: The Quantum Theory of Motion. Cambridge University Press, Cambridge (1993)

    Book  Google Scholar 

  35. Bricmont, J.: Comprendre la physique quantique. Odile Jacob, Brussels (2020)

    Google Scholar 

  36. de Broglie, L., Andrade e Silva, J.: Idées nouvelles concernant les systèmes de corpuscules dans l’interprétation causale de la Mécanique ondulatoire. Comptes rendus de l’Académie des Sci. 244(5), 529–533 (1957)

  37. Norsen, T., Marian, D., Oriols, X.: Can the Wave Function in Configuration Space be Replaced by Single-Particle Wave Functions in Physical Space? Physics: Faculty Publications, Smith College, Northampton (2015)

  38. Sakurai, J.J.: Advanced Quantum Mechanics. Addison-Wesley, Boston (1967)

    Google Scholar 

  39. Dewdney, C., Hiley, B.: A quantum potential description of one-dimensional time-dependent scattering from square barriers and square wells. Found. Phys. 12, 27 (1982)

    Article  ADS  Google Scholar 

  40. Vaidman, L.: The reality in Bohmian quantum mechanics or can you kill with an empty wave bullet? Found. Phys. 35, 2 (2005)

    Article  MathSciNet  MATH  Google Scholar 

  41. Hiley, B.J., Callaghan, R.E.: Delayed choice experiments and the Bohm approach. Phys. Scr. 74, 336 (2006)

    Article  ADS  MathSciNet  Google Scholar 

  42. Hardy, L.: On the existence of empty waves in quantum theory. Phys. Lett. A 67(1), 11–16 (1992)

    Article  ADS  MathSciNet  Google Scholar 

  43. Croca, J.R., Garuccio, A., Lepore, V.L., Moreira, R.N.: Comment on “Experimental test of the de Broglie guided-wave theory for photons”. Phys. Rev. Lett. 68(25), 3813 (1992). Reply by Zou et al. same issue, p. 3814

  44. Durt, T., Debierre, V.: Coherent states and the quantum classical limit considered from the point of view of entanglement. Int. J. Mod. Phys. B 26(00), 1245014 (2013)

    MATH  Google Scholar 

Download references

Author information

Authors and Affiliations

Authors

Corresponding author

Correspondence to T. Durt.

Additional information

Publisher's Note

Springer Nature remains neutral with regard to jurisdictional claims in published maps and institutional affiliations.

Appendices

Appendix 1: Testing Phase Coherence Between the Signal and Idler Waves Experimentally

Fig. 5
figure 5

Simplified scheme for detecting empty waves

Let us consider the scheme presented in Fig. 5. It consists in suppressing the MZ part in the full device in Fig. 2. In other words, we should just keep the HOM device in the green frame of Fig. 2 plus detectors 3 and 4 aimed at generating empty waves. If no 3D empty wave is present, the value of \(\Delta \theta \) is irrelevant because it plays the role of a global phase which is like nothing in the standard quantum theory as is well-known. This is obvious if we note that the wave function of the pair of photons, just before entering the beamsplitters connecting to the detectors 3 and 4 then reads

\({1\over \sqrt{2}}e^{i\delta \theta }(\Psi ^{idler}(x_1,t)\Psi ^{signal}(y_2,t)+\Psi ^{idler}(x_2,t)\Psi ^{signal}(y_1,t))\).

There is thus no way to estimate the value of \(\Delta \theta \) in NCI, and the same results can be shown to hold in 6D CI à la Bohm. If there is a click in detector 3 xor 4, the probability that detector 1 fires is equal to the probability that detector 2 fires, whichever the value of \(\Delta \theta \) could be. We predict the same behaviour if we describe this situation in the framework of 3D CI à la de Broglie in absence of phase coherence between the idler and signal pulses. If some coherence (even partial coherence) is present however, the presence of empty waves results into a (partial) interference pattern when \(\Delta \theta \) gets varied from 0 to \(2\pi \).

In particular, if \(\Delta \theta \) is equal to \(\pm \pi /2\), in the case of maximal coherence, the surviving photon will always leave the beamsplitter along the same arm, as we noted previously. In this case, it is even not necessary to recombine the two channels at the outputs of the first beamsplitter as done in Fig. 2 in order to reveal the existence of empty waves. As was noted by Croca et al. [1] however, the visibility of the interference pattern is zero whenever the two photon pulses are incoherent in phase, in which case we recover the predictions made in the framework of NCI, and the scheme proposed here is useless. It is however worth doing the experiment outlined in Fig. 5 in order to estimate the degree of coherence between the signal and idler pulses to begin with. If coherence is minimal (full incoherence) it is not conclusive but otherwise this would in itself constitute a crucial experiment. In a sense, 3D empty waves, if they exist and that they exhibit some coherence, would also make it possible then to measure a global phase, which is impossible mission in standard quantum mechanicsFootnote 14.

Appendix 2: Replacing the PDC Source by a Laser Source

As explained in Sect. 2.3, ... in many situations (where thermal and laser light sources are used for instance) Maxwell’s theory suffices to render account of the observations... This emphasises the role played by the optical source in these experiments. If we send for instance a Fock state \(\mid E_N>\) at the input of a beamsplitter then at its outputs we get [44] the state

\(\sum _{M=0}^N(\,\!\mid t\!\mid ^2)^{N-M}(\,\!\mid r\!\mid ^2)^{M}\sqrt{{N !\over M!\cdot (N-M) !}}\!\mid E^{transmitted}_{N-M}>\, \!\mid E^{reflected}_{M}>\), where t and r represent the amplitudes of transmission and reflection. Moreover, the N-photons wave function associated to a Fock state can be shown to factorize into products of identical one photon wave functions as shown by us in the Sect. 2.3.

If a coherent state \(\mid \alpha >_{coh.}\equiv e^{-\mid \alpha \vert ^2/2}\sum _{N=0}^\infty {\alpha ^N\over \sqrt{N!}}\mid E_N>\) enters the beamsplitter, then the output state obeys

$$\begin{aligned}{} & {} \mid \Psi>^{out}=e^{-\!\mid \alpha \!\mid ^2/2}\sum _{N=0}^\infty {\alpha ^N\over \sqrt{N!}}\sum _{M=0}^N(\mid t\!\mid ^2)^{N-M}( \mid r\!\mid ^2)^{M}\\{} & {} \qquad \sqrt{{N !\over M!\cdot (N-M) !}}\!\mid E^{transmitted}_{N-M}>\,\!\mid E^{reflected}_{M}>\\{} & {} \quad =e^{-\mid \alpha \mid ^2(\mid t\mid ^2+\mid r\mid ^2)/2}\sum _{N=0}^\infty {\alpha ^M\alpha ^{N-M}\over \sqrt{N!}}\sum _{M=0}^N(\mid t\!\mid ^2)^{N-M}(\mid r\!\mid ^2)^{M}\\{} & {} \qquad \sqrt{{N !\over M!\cdot (N-M) !}}\mid E^{transmitted}_{N-M}>\, \mid E^{reflected}_{M}>\\{} & {} \quad =\left( e^{-\mid \alpha \mid ^2\mid t\mid ^2/2}\sum _{N-M=0}^\infty (\alpha \mid t\mid ^2)^{N-M}\sqrt{{1\over (N-M) !}}\mid E^{transmitted}_{M-N}>\right) \\{} & {} \qquad \left( e^{-\mid \alpha \mid ^2\mid r\mid ^2/2}\sum ^\infty _{M=0}(\alpha \mid r\mid ^2)^{M}\sqrt{{1\over M!}}\mid E^{reflected}_{M}>\right) \\{} & {} \quad =\ \mid \alpha ^{in}\cdot t>_{coh.}^{Transmitted}\cdot \mid \alpha ^{in}\cdot r>_{coh.}^{Reflected}, \end{aligned}$$

which is the product of a coherent transmitted state with a coherent reflected state.

If we use a laser source coupled to a beamsplitter (as plotted in Fig. 6) instead of a source of two equivalent photons (e.g. a crystal where a single photon of the pump gets replaced, during a Parametric Down Conversion process, by two equivalent photons, the signal and idler photons), the wave function \(\ \Psi ^{out}\) thus obeys, instead of equation (19), the following equation:

$$\begin{aligned} \Psi ^{out}=\mid \alpha ^1>_{coh.}\mid \alpha ^2>_{coh.}\mid \alpha ^3>_{coh.}\mid \alpha ^4>_{coh.} \end{aligned}$$
(21)

where the source produces a coherent state

$$\begin{aligned} \mid \alpha>_{coh.}\equiv e^{-\mid \alpha \mid ^2/2}\sum _{N=0}^\infty {\alpha ^N\over \sqrt{N!}}\vert N>, \end{aligned}$$

while the complex amplitudes assigned to the coherent states present in outcome channels 1,2,3,4 are equal (up to a global phase) to

$$\begin{aligned}{} & {} \alpha _1={i\alpha \over 4}(-1+e^{i\Delta \theta }+e^{i\Delta \phi }+e^{i(\Delta \theta +\Delta \phi }) \text { (detector 1)},\\{} & {} \alpha _2={i\alpha \over 4}(-1+e^{i\Delta \theta }-e^{i\Delta \phi }-e^{i(\Delta \theta +\Delta \phi }) \text { (detector 2)},\\{} & {} \alpha _3=i\alpha /2 \text { (detector 3)},\\{} & {} \alpha _4=\alpha /2 \text { (detector 4)}. \end{aligned}$$
Fig. 6
figure 6

Replacing the PDC source by a laser source

This distribution is the same that would be obtained in the framework of Maxwell’s theory, and in the framework of NCI à la de Broglie and à la Bohm as well. It is also fully consitent with a CI because the state of light is factorisable (it is a product of coherent states localized at the level of each of the 4 outcome channels/detectors). Therefore the clicks at the levels of detectors 1,2,3,4 are uncorrelated (statistically independent). This explains why no crucial experiment aimed at discriminating between these various interpretational schemes is conceivable when the source is a laser state. These results could appear to be useful however in case they are used to calibrate the device described in Fig. 2.

Rights and permissions

Springer Nature or its licensor holds exclusive rights to this article under a publishing agreement with the author(s) or other rightsholder(s); author self-archiving of the accepted manuscript version of this article is solely governed by the terms of such publishing agreement and applicable law.

Reprints and permissions

About this article

Check for updates. Verify currency and authenticity via CrossMark

Cite this article

Durt, T. Do(es the Influence of) Empty Waves Survive in Configuration Space?. Found Phys 53, 13 (2023). https://doi.org/10.1007/s10701-022-00624-3

Download citation

  • Received:

  • Accepted:

  • Published:

  • DOI: https://doi.org/10.1007/s10701-022-00624-3

Keywords

Navigation