Participants’ View on the Interdisciplinary Project

As Activity Theory is a theory focusing on the object, this chapter con-centrates on the idea of hands-on multidisciplinary project that the teaching staff develop during the Change Laboratory workshops. It does so with the words of the people who are involved in the project: teachers, students and workshop assistants. Through interviews to the teaching staff and focus groups with students, the chapter will describe its historical antecedents, the features, the potentials and the challenges of the hands-on interdisciplinary project.

The interdisciplinary project has diverse potentials: it will increase employability and be useful for both university and working life; it will facilitate the alignment of curriculum with the new needs of the market; and it will promote inclusion. The shortcomings are that it is interdisciplinary rather than interdisciplinary, and the workshop assistants' role as connecting elements between subjects is undermined.
The fourth and fifth sections present the students' point of view. The Students of the section A only discussed the features of the interdisciplinary project: it promotes group work; it involves various disciplines and is more real, thus giving a holistic understanding of surveying; and it is competence based. The fifth section takes section B students' point of view. The features of the interdisciplinary project are that: it connects the diverse technical subjects, it is based on realistic tasks and problems, and it allows group work. Its main potentials are that it is useful for working life and university, and it has the potential to transform the relationship between teachers and students as a work relationship based on tutoring. It is facing challenges since not all the technical teachers are willing to participate, resulting in an overload for students; it competes with the regular curriculum instead of completing it; and the potential of the workshop assistant is not fully exploited.

The Methodology
In Cultural Historical Activity Theory, the object plays a key role, as it is the object that provides for the social meaning of the activity (Virkkunen & Newnham, 2013). During the Change Laboratory workshops, the participants developed a new object: a hands-on interdisciplinary project in surveying to be delivered in the two Grade 5 classes. Seen with the help of the triangle of activity (Engeström, 2015), this new object entails new division of labour, tools and roles. A new division of labour among teachers is necessary, because they coordinate their teachings around the common project. Since it is the workshop assistants who manage the project, a new division of labour between teachers and workshop assistants is also called for. The project also entails new rules and tools with in-class active didactics such as group work. This chapter analyses the participants' perspective with interviews and focus groups to better understand the new object and how it calls for a new division of labour, new tools and new rules.
I conducted six individual interviews with the teachers and two with the workshop assistants, while with students I made a focus group in each of the two Grade 5 classes (Section A and B). The following is a list of questions I used during the interviews and focus groups (Table 5.1).
Other themes which I had not thought about when devising the questions emerged spontaneously during the interviews, for example the relationship between the interdisciplinary project and the state exam at the end of Grade 5. The qualitative data analysis was done as follows (Merriam, 2009;Ravitch & Carl, 2015): I transcribed the whole interviews and focus groups and read them recursively to group common themes. The following sections will report a selection of excerpts I translated 2. In what ways is the new interdisciplinary project different from the interdisciplinary projects carried out before the reform? 3. What are the differences between this interdisciplinary project compared to a regular project you have participated in? 4. How do you think students/teachers see the interdisciplinary project? 5. How do students/teachers work differently during the interdisciplinary project? 6. What do you think they find difficult in the interdisciplinary project? 7. Do you work differently with your colleagues involved in the interdisciplinary project? 8. How do the workshop assistants work differently during the interdisciplinary project? 9. How do you think the interdisciplinary project will impact on the visibility of surveying?
10. How do you think the interdisciplinary project will impact on new enrolments? into English. The categories that I use to group the excerpts are the features, potentials and challenges of the interdisciplinary project. Moreover, in the case of the teachers' interview another category is represented by its historical antecedents. The next chapter will tell how these themes were vetted through a participant validation strategy.

The Interdisciplinary Project in the Eyes of the Teachers
The interviews gather the opinion of two teachers of design, one teacher of topography, two teachers of land valuation, as well as one teacher of agronomy who is also the school's vice director. The vice director is not directly involved in the implementation of the project, but had previous experience with interdisciplinary projects and in-depth pedagogical understanding. He participated in all Change Laboratory workshops, having drafted the idea of the interdisciplinary project. All the following interviewees teach technical subjects, because at that time no teacher of humanities had yet been involved. The senior teachers already did a interdisciplinary project when it was a mandatory activity carried out during specifically allocated hours before the school reform. However, a new professional figure, the workshop assistant, now helps connect the diverse subjects into a whole, plus the project requires a competence-based approach and students' group work. With these elements, the interdisciplinary project becomes something new from the interdisciplinary project carried out in the end of the 1990s.

What Are the Historical Antecedents?
To better understand the history of the interdisciplinary project, it is necessary to connect it with other projects (interdisciplinary or not) carried out by the most experienced teachers in previous years in the school or in other schools. Firstly, there is a clear relationship between the new interdisciplinary project and the interdisciplinary projects carried out regularly before the school reform in both courses of surveying and agronomy (the agronomy course was held at the institute up until 2000). The vice director, who at the time taught in agronomy, explains the connection between old and new interdisciplinary project: For design teacher 2, the main difference is that now there is a new professional involved who connects the various subjects involved.
1 Interviewer What is the difference between the new interdisciplinary project and the interdisciplinary project you carried out before the school reform?
2 Design teacher 2 In the interdisciplinary project before the reform the workshop assistant, a fundamental professional that we should value well, was missing. Each teacher carried out a small piece of the project and there was a sort of hand-over. The first bit was done by a teacher, the second bit was done by another teacher, and each managed their own piece without understanding the common thread. This time there is a new professional figure that I believe in. If well trained and valued, the workshop assistant could make an overall project-I am not saying between the two classes, but at least in each class. S/he helps the students see the complexity of design, which is the result of diverse contributions. In our society, more and more, design is the result of diverse professionals' synergies, therefore the students should learn how to work in groups The new interdisciplinary project can also be traced to a small interdisciplinary project carried out by only two teachers the year before in the same school in the geotechnics course (an articulation of the surveying course). Yes, and this is the big novelty However, the interdisciplinary project carried out before the reform in Agronomy already included diverse subjects, and was presented as a project at the state exam, says the vice director.

Interviewer
Did the old interdisciplinary project in agronomy have many subjects or did it only involve technical subjects?
28 Vice director When I did it in agronomy we involved diverse subjects. We wrote the abstract in English, we had the literature teacher revise the reports, and sometimes statistical aspects for maths. We tried to involve as many subjects as possible. Sometimes we succeeded, some others we didn't. It was not the same old essay that irritates the commission at the state exam, it was a realistic project

What Are the Features?
Firstly, many interviewees agree that the interdisciplinary project is based on realistic tasks that students could face one day in work activity. For the Design teacher 1, it is closer to the job of a professional surveyor: 15 Interviewer What is the difference between the interdisciplinary project and a regular project such as the design of a little townhouse? The vice director emphasises the fact that in the interdisciplinary project, the students do not have to invent data, but rather deal with real data and problems. For the Design teacher 2, the interdisciplinary project is a task that forces students to cope with the problems typical of the working world. Yes, more than other projects because students work on concrete things. They see a map of the area which is not just hypothetical, and this is an absolutely positive aspect Although the topography teacher contends that other projects carried out in previous years were to some extent interdisciplinary, this project is different because it is far more similar to problems the students could deal with in their professional practice. Second, the interdisciplinary project makes a connection between subject matters. For the topography teacher, it will help the students to summarise what they are doing in the different technical subjects, thus allowing a holistic understanding of surveying and construction. 51 Interviewer Do you think students sum up what they study in the diverse subjects?

Topography teacher
As I was telling you before, at the moment they are struggling but at a later stage they will have an insight and everything will fit into place. It is like when you solve a detective story, everything looks confused at the beginning, but in the end everything makes sense. It will still take more time, but in the spring they will arrive to fully understand what they are doing … And again:

Topography teacher
However, what we have done so far is not yet connected, every teacher followed their own program, we haven't summarised at all 75 Interviewer I see. Now comes the effort. So far, each teacher has done his or her part. You still have to wrap it up, and this will be the turn around 76 Topography teacher I think so; in a later stage students will understand that they did a complete work instead of examining one little bit at a time. There will be a moment when they will become aware they did a job which is remarkable For the vice director, it will help students not to see technical subjects as separated. Third, the interdisciplinary project calls for group work, a set of social competences important in working life, as told by the vice director in speaking (no. 41) or by Design teacher 2 in speaking (no. 3) above or in the transcript below. 22 Interviewer Working by project is the regular working modality for surveyors, so what is the difference between working by projects as opposed to a interdisciplinary project?
23 Design teacher 2 I believe that working in groups is important for students to acquire relational competences beyond applying a formula or make a calculation For the topography teacher, the interdisciplinary project is an opportunity for group work, as she explains to parents during the school open day: 98 Interviewer If I understood it well, the interdisciplinary project will allow students to work in groups

Topography teacher
We also talked about that with parents, as they asked about bullying in our school. We explained that the class size in the latest triennium is small, since in Grade 3 we have 11 students in one class and 12 in Grade 5. We also talked about group work as an important competence during work, and that through the interdisciplinary project we have them working in groups

What Are the Potentials?
This section deals with the pedagogical renewal brought by the interdisciplinary project. Firstly, it should align well with a competence-based state exam and has therefore the potential to transform the traditional disciplinary oral examination. This is the point of view of the vice director: 10 Vice director I do not know if it will affect the state exam, because the critique is that at the oral test there is one question on literature, one on history, the three minute-long question of English, mathematics, constructions … instead, the interview should be interdisciplinary. I don't know if the commission will use the interdisciplinary project for the interview or will just employ the usual round of questions

Interviewer
We are talking about that in the follow-up workshops 12 Vice director However, the law states clearly that the interview at the state exam must be interdisciplinary, and based on the activities performed during the year or during work experience For the Design teacher 2, it will be up to the commission whether or not the interdisciplinary project will be incorporated into the state exam. Also for the Design teacher 2, the evaluation of the interdisciplinary project will have to include more criteria beyond the reproduction of knowledge. In the open day, group work within the interdisciplinary project is emphasised as a possible way to combat bullying and learn a set of skills important in working life. 114 Interviewer Hence, in the open day you presented the interdisciplinary project as a useful tool in combatting bullying, since teachers work together and students work in groups

Topography teacher
The truth is that we do not see any bullying hereat least in the triennium. But the fact the students cooperate is a good way to fight bullying. Furthermore, a course that has a cooperative approach is good because if you work in a private practice one professional has an idea and a colleague has another idea, one person specialises in a thing and another in another thing. However, the need for cooperating is not an invention. Do you remember that during the Change Laboratory we said that an individual work cannot simply be turned into a group work? Instead, in design, many minds have to come together

What Are the Challenges?
The teachers also identify issues with the interdisciplinary project. The main observation is that as it unfolds, the project is multidisciplinary rather than interdisciplinary. It is true that within this paradigm, the same issue is dealt with in different subjects, but as the teachers do not integrate their work with that of their colleagues, eventually the project is made of small pieces without connection between the topics. For the land valuation teacher 2, the need for interdisciplinarity in surveying had been a main concern during the Change. He explains this clearly in two different speaking turns: Although the teacher suggests common lessons to overcome multidisciplinarity, the role of workshop assistants should be key, as they could liaise the different technical subjects, thus giving the students an holistic view of the project and of surveying. The second problem is that the workshop assistants are not connecting the diverse technical subjects, the main reasons being their turnover and lack of experience. Concerning turnover, says the land valuation teacher 1: The third issue with the interdisciplinary project is that it causes a heavy workload for students, as pointed out by the topography teacher in speaking (no. 52) above and below:

Topography teacher
At the moment I think that the students see the interdisciplinary project as a heavy job rather than an opportunity. I explained them and the parents that their two Grade 5 classes are good classes, hence we do more than what we normally do because we understand we can expect something more The land valuation teacher 2 is one of the most sceptical about the interdisciplinary project; he joined the workshops only in the follow-up. Although he believes that the interdisciplinary project is a burden, it will not be a waste of time.

Interviewer
Do you see an added value in the interdisciplinary project? Or is it just a burden for the students?
23 Land valuation teacher 2 Surely a burden. There should also be an added value, I hope to find it at the end of the year. At the moment I find the subjects so compartmentalised and I don't see it. I should check it at the end whether it has been a waste of time, but I don't think so

The Interdisciplinary Project in the Eyes of the Workshop Assistants
In this section, I will illustrate the results of the interviews with the workshop assistants. During the Change Laboratory workshops, their role was defined as essential in connecting the technical subject matters around the common project, and at the moment of the interviews, this is the gap to be filled. However, the two workshop assistants interviewed were not working in the institute the previous year and therefore they did not participate in the Change Laboratory workshops. Similarly with the teachers' interview, I will present a selection of the two workshop assistants' interviews according to characteristics, potentials and risks. In one interview, the workshop assistant did not give consent to be recorded, and therefore, I had to write the answers directly on paper. The other interview was regularly recorded and later transcribed for analysis.

What Are the Features?
Firstly, a difference between the interdisciplinary project and projects regularly carried out in the school is that the interdisciplinary project connects the subjects and makes them real.

Interviewer What is the difference between a regular project and the interdisciplinary project?
5 Workshop assistant 1

When I was a student in this school there was no interdisciplinary project. I think it is a good thing both for design and construction, as you put together everything you have studied. For land valuation for example, how do I apply it? You also sum up topography-I remember that when I was studying here we only did a survey once, and it was in the school corridors
Workshop assistant 2 substantially agrees by explaining in detail how the interdisciplinary project connects subjects through real problems:

I think they would like to be free from regulations and use their innovation. However, the need to be real is part of the project, we pretend that the project will be really built and not be Walt Disney's castle, therefore they must consider the regulations
Another characteristic of the interdisciplinary project is that although it does reflect the demands of the surveying industry by focussing on group work, the students are not used to cooperation.

What Are the Potentials?
One of its potentials is that it will increase employability and be useful for both university and working life.

Interviewer What do you think the interdisciplinary project is?
3 Workshop assistant 1

It is the most useful thing, because you put together all you have learnt in previous years in an overall project that recalls all the subjects in a practical fashion. This is very good for working life and even university
Workshop assistant 2 agrees with their colleague's conception, stating: 1 Interviewer How would you define it?

An interdisciplinary project, a project that prepares the students for working life
The interdisciplinary project has the potential to increase the enrolments in the school, provided it deals with an up to date object. In doing so, it has a transformative potential of the curriculum aligning the course with the market needs.
14 Interviewer Do you see any contribution from the interdisciplinary project to a possible increase in the number of enrolments?

What Are the Challenges?
Firstly, the students' workload is not considered excessive for the workshop assistant 1. The following excerpt of workshop assistant 1, likewise 7 above, emphasises the workshop assistants' turnover.

Interviewer What do you think about the role of workshop assistants in the interdisciplinary project?
13 Workshop assistant 1

I don't know what to say. It is the key figure as it is interdisciplinary. It was hard for me as I am newly employed and couldn't follow the project since its beginning
The same account was given by workshop assistant 2.

The interdisciplinary project is carried out only in certain specific subjects, in other subjects the teacher explains and the workshop assistant remains seated. The teacher has the last word and decides when to proceed with the curriculum
The same problem is identified by Workshop assistant 2 who proposes to allocate specific time to deal with the interdisciplinary project holistically.

The Interdisciplinary Project with the Class a Students' Eyes
This section and the next identify the characteristics of the interdisciplinary projects for the students of Grade 5 A and B classes. The outcomes of the two focus groups are kept separated as the interdisciplinary project was carried out in a slightly different way. Although there are similarities-both analyses point out features of the interdisciplinary project such as group work, real tasks and connection between technical subjects-there are also significant differences. For example, while class A deepens the features of the interdisciplinary project, class B emphasises its future possibilities and challenges. In both classes, the respective Design teacher was present during the focus group, and took part in the conversation with their reflections, with the aim of explaining to students why some choices have been made. I believe it is important to report these reflections in the focus groups so as not to lose the context where they had been made (Ravitch & Carl, 2015). Two teachers participated in the discussion with the students: Design teacher 3 for section A, while Design teacher 1 for section B.
In class A during the analysis, I could only find features of the interdisciplinary project.
Firstly, a student defines the interdisciplinary project as group work. The main concern for teachers is a fair division of labour. Even though the groups are small (only 3 components), some students get involved and may work alone while others could loaf, thus making the evaluation difficult.

The Interdisciplinary Project with the Class B Students' Eyes
Unlike Class A and similarly to the interviews to teachers and workshop assistants, during the class B focus group's analysis I found the features of the interdisciplinary project, its potentials and challenges.

What Are the Features?
The first characteristic of the interdisciplinary project is that it is a real project connecting the various technical disciplines.

Student
The interdisciplinary project is an activity sufficiently concrete where we connect more disciplines, and for each discipline we carry out a specific function. We regard the overall outcome as positive, even though we would have needed more availability from the teachers, for example for a more accurate survey This relationship requires the teacher to mentor the students and provide a formative feedback.

What Are the Challenges?
The first of the issues I detected is that the interdisciplinary project can be hampered by the lack of teachers' participation. Likewise in speaking (no 13 and 28) above, and in the speaking turn below, the students regret it was not possible to survey the field because their topography teacher had not yet started his programme connected with the interdisciplinary project. After all we did our job. I believe that at the end of the month we will see nice works. Unfortunately, the project hasn't been shared as much as we had agreed Moreover, the same topography teacher joined in two months after the focus group, and finally, the students went for an accurate survey of the lot. Connected to this there is the risk that as the teachers not involved proceed with their programme and projects, the workload for students could increase. These issues, however, call for better sequencing and coordination between teachers. Another risk is that the interdisciplinary project is considered by teachers as complementary to the regular curriculum. This perspective results in more work being distributed rather than space being given for students to reflect on how they can improve their skills. In other words, instead of considering the interdisciplinary project an ideal corollary, the competence-based interdisciplinary project ends up by competing with the knowledge based curriculum. 86 Student We also must consider the teachers' workload because they must complete their programs and simply cannot dedicate sufficient time to both the curriculum and the interdisciplinary project In this regard, the students suggest that the interdisciplinary project should be run continuously throughout the school year as a common and main objective:

Student
The initiative is good but should be carried out throughout the whole year. It shouldn't be an additional burden and the program should be simply adapted to it Talking about connecting disciplines, the students recognise the key role of the workshop assistant but also the challenge of fully exploiting such a role. When I conducted these interviews, the interdisciplinary project was already running in the two Grade 5 classes. From a CHAT point of view, a potential germ cell, the interdisciplinary project, had been developed into an object and a running activity. This chapter has displayed how the object has been enriched in its practical arrangements, while also positing how it is a multifaceted and contested living entity, which is never established once for all, but it is continuously negotiated by the community (students and teachers mostly) who are working in that activity. The students' perspectives involved in this interdisciplinary project, as well as the teachers and workshop assistants' point of view, with its features, potentials and challenges were summarised with the help of a diagram that is available on Appendix B. The next chapter will show how this diagram was discussed and vetted with the people involved in the interdisciplinary project during a follow-up workshop. Open Access This chapter is licensed under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 International License (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/), which permits use, sharing, adaptation, distribution and reproduction in any medium or format, as long as you give appropriate credit to the original author(s) and the source, provide a link to the Creative Commons license and indicate if changes were made. The images or other third party material in this chapter are included in the chapter's Creative Commons license, unless indicated otherwise in a credit line to the material. If material is not included in the chapter's Creative Commons license and your intended use is not permitted by statutory regulation or exceeds the permitted use, you will need to obtain permission directly from the copyright holder.