Janet: I believe that dialogue is vital for exploring and testing our ideas. This led me to move from hypotheticals for teaching to writing a novel and a sequel which can also be considered a parable on current concerns. In some recent papers with you and with our network of colleagues we developed a metalogue which involves working on issues through dialogue interspersed with commentary. A dialogical approach enables a flow of ideas amongst participants. In a novel it allows many characters representing different points of view to enrich a scenario aimed at inspiring creativity and opportunity and most importantly, to make some key points by reaching a different audience.

Norma: Thanks Janet, I received the book and it reads well as it is topical and weaves in many current issues. I found it brilliantly written in the way in which you develop deep ideas through the learning of Thandi as she interacts with the other characters and as they teach her important lessons, which she reflects upon in her own way. Perhaps you can share why you believe that “thinking matters, quite literally? How can “thinking make an exciting difference to everyday lives?”.

Janet: We all know the ancient curse, “May you live in interesting times!” I think we can all agree that we do indeed live in interesting times. This can make people shrug and say, “Oh well what can I do?” Well as you know, Norma the book makes the point that we shape the world through our thinking and actions. This is exciting as we can be the creators of our world.

Norma: It is harder for some than for others. But Thandi learned how, for example her father and grandfather had devoted their lives to caring for others, including all of life. And that this was why her father and mother found connection too, as she appreciated this in him. I found it so well written the way you weaved that into Thandi’s awareness when at first she had not realized this about her father and his relatives and friends, including the spiritual leaders in the African setting. You explained the magic very well through her eyes. It is written in a way that moves the reader intellectually, spiritually and emotionally. And you also made the point that even if one does not try to influence the world through making a huge difference, any difference that one can make is important.

Then later as the novel unfolds you show how Thandi rises to meet many challenges and learns through her engagement with the other characters and especially her Indigenous friends in Africa that multispecies relationships matter.

Janet: Yes, indeed, every small contribution can make a difference, and there is nothing inevitable about the future, well not just yet. I think this is the main motivation for writing the novel. It is also my motivation for the practical projects in which we are engaged. We still have a window of time during which we could make a dramatic U turn away from the cliff. We do not need to keep running in the wrong direction.

Norma: What do you mean by that? Also, the story addresses the big question: “How should we live our lives?” How did you approach this question?

Janet: Well, to answer the first part of the question: lemmings keep running with the rest of their group when they face danger, instead of pausing, assessing the situation and changing their route, so that they run in a different direction. Sadly, lemmings have been known to keep rushing headlong into danger.

I approached the question of how we should live our lives by considering some of the pressing challenges we face on this planet. Thandi is no lemming, however. Although at the beginning of the story she has lost her way and her focus in life, she engages in a quest of self-discovery by learning to be more compassionate towards herself and others.

Her journey spans learning from brick and mortar schools, an Indigenous healer, the bush, the ocean, the mountain, and the great saints (past and present). I also used the opportunity to explore an imaginary curriculum at a Multiversity that enables participants learn to communicate with many species.

Norma: Do you believe that story telling could make a difference?

Janet: Stories that we tell ourselves and others matter. This is the magic of quantum theory—our thoughts write the landscape of our lives. We are participants in the universe, not passive observers. One of the reasons I have been inspired to do participatory action research with wise colleagues and community leaders is that the process of engagement creates opportunities and we can together tell a new story. If we think about it, the arts and sciences are shaped by questions and narratives about how we can change the world. By being kind or unkind to ourselves, others and our environment we quite literally shape our world. It is my hope that some of the ideas on fostering better relationships with others will come into being as a result of community engagement projects.

Norma: This is so and you did express this very adeptly (albeit quite subtly interwoven in the book), but why did you decide to write a novel?

Janet: The novel tries to reach a different audience by telling an adventure story that takes a constructivist turn that highlights the issues raised in academic contributions, such as a set of Springer volumes: “Balancing Individualism and Collectivism”; “From Polarisation to Multispecies Relationships”; “Transformative Education for Regeneration”; “From Wall Street to Wellbeing”; “Systemic Ethics and Non-Anthropocentric Stewardship”; “Mixed Methods and Cross-Disciplinary Research”; and “Democracy and Governance for Resourcing the Commons”.

Norma: Yes, the story is expressed as an adventure and as such is exciting to read for adults as well as for those classified as children (who may indeed be even more open to learning). I found as an adult that the way you wrote it had very deep insights woven into the adventures of Thandi. As a reader one finds a connection with her and her growth. I also liked your point that had the adults in Thandi’s life not been mature enough to recognize that her minor misdemeanors were minor and were a result of her grief, such that they acted sympathetically towards her, life could have turned out very differently for her. This story makes this point well too! But is story telling enough?

Janet: Both thinking and actions matter, so stories that inspire need to be translated into everyday actions. Without giving away the plot of the story, let me share that although Thandi is not a real person and although the Wisdom Growers network is fictional I have met many wise local leaders who are making a difference. My aim is to inspire young people of any age to keep dreaming and to believe that they can make magic happen in their everyday lives.

Norma: Does the story end on the last page?

Janet: Hopefully not, Norma, we need to keep writing and turning the page of life everyday; this is what makes life exciting and meaningful. Besides, it is also a recipe for happiness (or at least a life worth living) which is what we are all looking for, whether we are human or other animals.

Also, I must admit that the characters, particularly Thandi and Professor Arachnid have a life of their own and a sequel is unfolding!

Professor Norma Romm in conversation with Professor Janet McIntyre-Mills. The pseudonym for the novel is Janet J Mills. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/61433779-finding-the-wind